Are Human Rights Fundamental to Democracy? – Richard Harries
Posted by admin on February 20th, 2010
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February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Human rights without democracy is a practical impossibility, because as we know, absolute power corrupts absolutely. If either the majority or minority of ethnicity or ideology holds absolute power over the other, then human rights will be its first victim.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
3:23 “Vagil information” eh?
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
1. I didn’t say I’m a proponent of democracy, but I am a proponent of democratic values. The two go together sometimes but sometimes not.
2. Greece & Rome were based on slavery. Their democracies were plutocracies that gave more power to the wealthy elite.
3. You’re arguing that plutocracy is the correct basis of democracy. If so, this is where democracy & democratic values diverge.
4. I was trying not to be absurd, but it seemed necessary to respond back in kind.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
1. Why does the “powerful elite” need to protect itself from the majority? I don’t know. Ask the powerful elite why they do this.
2. All civil rights began with populist movements. Elites make civil rights laws when threatened by angry mobs. For example, one early workers union allowed blacks and women to have positions within their organization.
3. There are rich politicians & rich capitalists which represent the powerful elite.
4. Corporatocracy is to blame which is big gov & big business.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Western civilization has sustained itself by continuously destroying the environment and other cultures for centuries. We’re running out of environments and cultures to destroy. Since civilization began, huge numbers of species have gone extinct, whole ecosystems stopped functioning, and many cultures have been destroyed often intentionally through genocidal actions. Technology can’t bring back extinct species, destroyed ecosystems, and annihalated cultures.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
@greenhell666
how?
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
How about the protection of little boys from their pedophile priests? Is that a human right? Who has the church historically moved to protect in those cases?
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
I said many were slave owners. Their personal opinions on whether slavery should be legal is somewhat (not completely though) irrelevant. No matter how much we deify them this hideous fact will always be true.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
I thought the essence of democracy was majority rule over government (and over society by proxy of government). It’s better than dictatorship, but when society is prejudiced against a minority then democracy is not a big improvement.
However, democracy in that sense of the people having the power doesn’t exist, since the people only get to choose from representatives that the ruling class picked out. It’s still a form of oligarchy in reality.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
He’s not talking about that. He’s just saying that human rights always trump “the greater good” and democracy.
I most certainly agree. You don’t sacrifice an individual for the well being of the collective. Nobody in the collective has the right to do so.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Did you watch it? I’m guessing you never. Pretty hard to disagree with if you are one that doesn’t like torture.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
3:23 “Vagil uh vagily uh valuable information” Good old priests. We know whats on your minds.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Ireland, Iceland, old west, Pennsylvania, Rhode island. go look them up and do some research on your own, i am not going to do all the thinking for you.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
oh man, not another video talking about “tyranny of the majority”
bullshit
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Shouldnt the video be called: Are Human Rights Fundamental to Democratic Society rather then : Are Human Rights Fundamental to Democracy?
Because rights are not required for Democracy to function.
Plus this guy shouldnt be worried to much about Water Boarding, listening to the Archbishop of Canterbury talk is much more painful the Water Boarding. At least i assume it is because it makes my eyes and ears bleed. He should try to nip that on the bud first. Think Globally, Act Locally!
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
You know this sustainability argument has been around since the 1600′s right? Please tell me you’re going to make a: “We’re going to run out of food argument…” It seems human ingenuity keeps making asses out of it’s proponents.
There’s cheap technology out that allows for a process that grows plants with 4x the yield, in half the time, in a quarter of the space, with not even a quarter of the water used now. Guess what, NASA is the only one using it… Commercial growers havent picked it up.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
1. Why does the “powerful elite” need to protect itself from the majority? “If a democracy ever did exist, one could argue that theoretically human rights would increase (or at least not decrease).” (Your words)
2. Gays, Women, Slaves, Reign of Terror, Heretics (Atheists/Wiccans/Quakers, etc, etc), Drug users, Blacks, etc. (Obviously this is an absurd notion. Do you know no history?)
3. As if the rich are inseparable from big business.
4. Big Government is to blame.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
1. Is this to say that the democracy, for which you are a proponent of, is impossible? “Leaders” [politicians] have been selling themselves through propaganda, which is done through media (speeches are a media type), since the beginning of governance. Have you never seen a political pamphlet or press release?
2. If you were a male citizen you voted.
3. Wait, didn’t I say this? Do you know why and were they not right? In the 1800s people sold their vote for drinks at a saloon.
4. Don’t be absurd.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
I agree. Civilization as we know it began with agriculture. Civilization has created some nice things, but it’s also been extremely destructive (to the environment and to traditoinal cultures). In it’s present condition, civilization isn’t sustainable.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
The problem is the powerful elite are also a minority. The elite are more likely to use their power to protect themselves from the majority. The disempowered minorities are more likely to be treated fairly by the mob than by the elite. Both big government and big business support the elite to the detriment to the rest of the population. To the extent they’re possible, democracies and free markets can only exist on the very smallscale such as with agrarian communities and hunter-gatherer tribes.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
1. A vote is an act of empty symbolism if voters are manipulated through propaganda and controlled media.
2. Greeks were relatively democratic, but they only accomplished this because they were small population with a small government. However, both Greeks and Romans were more plutocracies than democracies.
3. The founding fathers weren’t interested in democracy to any great extent and instead wanted plutocracy.
4. If I was using too big of words for you, I’d suggest you use a dictionary.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
I completely disagree, the better for the majority is always more important than individual rights. who cares if a religious psycho is tortured as long as hundreds of innocent people can be saved? what about their individual rights of being safe and protected?
individual rights being valued more than the better for the majority is what screws the “civilized” societies, stopping any further progress of science, social safety, etc.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
They were ready to die in opposition to the U.S government over a 9 cent tax.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
There were plenty of “societies” [villages, towns, etc] that have operated along the lines of anarchy. The frontier settlements come to mind, as does Pennsylvania circa 1680′s.
You have to remember that it was only up until recently that government has been able to operate in an “in your face” manner. How much governing do you think a Government can do when its agents ride on horseback?
Think of those who participated in the “Whiskey Rebellion” and tell me they were used to operating under gov
February 20th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
If you were familiar with the “Federalist Papers”, the philosophy, and the politics of the late 1800′s [Political Bosses; Political Machines] it would be perfectly clear as to why the founders only wanted the landowners to vote.
Much of what you fucking whine about-you don’t know but it’s called the “iron triangle”- could have been avoided if the Constitution hadn’t been perverted.
You name the problem, I’ll tell you how the Const. guarded against it.